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Is God the Author of Sin?

If you haven’t checked out the previous post “Is God a Fatalist?” you should. It will give a foundation to what this post will address.

After discussing the sovereign decree of God one will undoubtedly hear something like, “God is the author of sin if he decrees everything”. This is a common assertion by the unreformed person and it is important to respond to it.

Side note: if you are not reformed in your theology this post will still come in handy because you will be able to understand what the reformed person believes instead of arguing about something they don’t. Allow me to shine some light on how the reformed person’s view of God and sin.

The problem with God’s decree is not easily explained. The reason for this is not because it is some complicated formula or a twisting of Scripture but rather because of emotion. Why do I say this?

Human emotion can get in the way of a lot of things. I know there have been times in my life where my emotions gotten the best of me and ruled over actions or thinking. The same goes with this subject. It is touchy when someone brings up painful events that we have had in our lives. This pain can cloud or view of God. People ask, “Why would God allow this to happen?” Some people even reject God because of the pain they have suffered. This pain and hurt comes from sin. For most people there is a problem when the reformed person says that God controls and decrees everything that comes to pass. What’s the problem? Well, it is that if God does, in fact, decree sinful acts along with everything else then he is must have been the author of sin. This is a very important question because it attacks the essence of who God is. Let’s go to the Scriptures starting at Numbers 23:19:

“God is not man, that he should lie,

or a son of man, that he should change his mind.

Has he said, and will he not do it?

Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?”

Here we see that God is separated from man. He is not man because he does not lie. He does not commit sin in the way that man does because he is utterly holy. He doesn’t need to change his mind like a man because he knows everything perfectly (sorry open theists). God makes it clear that when he speaks he is going to fulfill that promise because God is God.

Hopefully, everyone in this discussion would agree that God is not man and that God is incapable to sin. After establishing that we need to explore how God could possibly decree sinful things while being completely separated from it. I quoted from the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith in the previous post and I will do so now to establish a deeper definition of what we are discussing.

Chapter 3 “Of God’s Decree” line one says: “God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.

I quoted the italicized section in the previous post but the focus of this post is on the text in bold. Earlier I quoted out of Numbers 23 and stated that God is not like man because God does not sin. The 1689 LBC affirms this when it says that God is not “the author of sin” but even beyond that it states that God doesn’t even have “fellowship” with sin. How in the world could this be? Allow me to try and explain without damaging the mystery of this truth.

We must move into another Scripture passage that will give us insight into how God decrees sinful actions to take place yet is separated from them. In the book of Genesis we are told a story about Joseph. The story of Joseph spans many chapters so we wont go into much detail about everything that happened. I would encourage you to read it yourself to gain some context. The story goes something like this:

Based on the story of Joseph

Joseph is sold into slavery by his brothers. Joseph prospered in Potipher’s (captain of Pharaoh’s guard) house then was accused, falsely, of trying to sleep with Potipher’s wife. That landed Joseph in prison. While in prison Joseph received revelation from God that famine was going to strike and he told Pharaoh to store up food for it. Afterwards, Pharaoh promoted Joseph to look over all of Egypt. This is where we see God’s involvement with the story in Genesis 50.

The brothers realize that what they did was wrong and they ask forgiveness for their betrayal. The words that come out of Joseph’s mouth are amazing! Genesis 50:18-20 says this:

His brothers also came and fell down before him and said, ‘Behold, we are your servants.’ But Joseph said to them, ‘Do not fear, for am I in the place of God? As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.’”

Here we see that in the sinful and horrific action God had a plan and a purpose in it. God was there from the beginning with a purpose. That purpose gives us all the insight that we need. Many say that God couldn’t decree things like this but if that is the case how could there be any purpose in anything? If the world is simply moving along without God’s decree then God could not have purpose within any action but only react to what we do. This contradicts what we read here because, as Joseph clearly understood, “God meant this for good”.

This post isn’t about unpacking everything so that we can understand it because we can’t. Human understanding can only take us so far when it comes to the things of God. I don’t know exactly how God is separated from sin yet decrees it to happen. All I know is that the Scriptures are clear that God has a purpose in every action. And I thank God that he has his good purposes in every evil thing that takes place in my life.

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About Travis Berry

I am a blatantly honest person who loves to think, read, discuss, and write about God and theology. I have a bachelor's degree in Youth Ministry from Crown College. I work at a church in Houston, TX as a Youth Director and love every minute of it! I am married to a wonderful woman named Becky and we have one amazing child! I have a love for God's Word, and a fervor to live it out in the fullest, and I pray this blog reflects that. Thanks for checking out AnotherChristianBlog!.

Posted on October 22, 2011, in Christianity, Theology and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 28 Comments.

  1. So, the church you attend , the preacher would end the service by saying something like this, “well, i hope GOD has chosen you to spend eternal life with HIM,so, good luck & if not, say hi to all those in hell, when you die, that he didn’t chose “.Good luck getting that extra building built! Kinda like the lottery, huh? So, why the cross, if GOD has elected only some of HIS children beforehand for salvation, why have HIS son pay the ultimate sacrifice, cruxifiction? Why did the 1 prisoner on the tree, just before his death, receive the good news, where’s this hope the bible teaches us? Why would GOD even tell Adam & Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge? Why are the words, beleives, beleived, beleiver, beleive, beleiving, beleivers, in the Word of GOD? (which means to ACCEPT (choose) as true, genuine, real) John 17:21–earlier JESUS is praying for the disciples, but now for future Man that, through the disciples, will become beleivers through hearing the Word (not HIS election). I’m guessing everytime we see the words- GOD loves us, we should put a footnote saying, “only the lucky 1’s, sorry”. God has a purpose for the evil that happens to you, your last sentence, so HE allows it to take place in your life, i agree. Romans 1:24,26,28 “GOD gave them up”, HE let them follow their (24)lusts of their hearts, (26)dishonorable passions,& (28)debased minds. They chose to do it, He let them. Talk to Parents, we let our kids goof, because thats the only way they learn to listen, or follow us, even to trust us that we know better than they do. Look, 12th grd grad here, duh (easily figured out from wordage, lol) & surely no theologian, duh 2, but if GOD choses who gets in, & with the explanation /disciption of hell the Bible gives us, then GOD is evil. James says we shouldn’t show partiality, so GOD can? Didn’t HE bring the flood after only finding 1 who had favor with HIM? All the others had continually evil thoughts in their hearts & CHOSE NOT TO FOLLOW him. No partiallity here, just blessings & cursings from Man,s choices (PSALM 1). We see bad choices made throughout the Bible, wait , we all have sin & fall short , that’s it, we are sin, not HIM.Feel free to dismisss this, but please answer this 1 question—with all the election pastors out there today, have you seen or herd of ANY preaching, “i hope you are 1 of the lucky lottery winners that GOD has elected to receive salvation!” & also, “if not, say hi to all the unlucky 1’s in hell when you die, who have come before you”, PS–“HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!” YES or NO, if no, then they would be wolves in sheep clothing, right? if yes, GOD help us!!!!!

    • Andy,

      Here are a few basic questions for you to think about. Usually, the free-will position has the same problem the reformed postiion has, however from my perspective, the reformed position is biblical. Here are some questions:

      #1 Does God know what is going to happen in the future perfectly? If you say yes, then I have another question for you.

      #2 Can you do something outside of what God knows you’re going to do? In other words, can you, by your free-will falsify God’s foreknowledge? If you said yes to the first, I am going to assume you are going to say no to the second.

      #3 Since God does know the future, and God cannot be wrong about what is going to happen in the future, doesn’t that mean you also believe that God creates people that he knows will go to hell? If God knows everything about the future and can’t be wrong then you have a serious problem. You believe that God created people that go to hell for no purpose. Your position leaves God in a place with no power over his creation. Your belief makes God a “respecter of persons” because whether they are saved or not is solely up to them.

      I hope these questions help you wrestle with your position a little bit because from what I read, you are attacking a straw-man of the reformed faith.

      Travis

      • OK, you gots me! My bad—1 yes. – 2 no – 3 no, Romans 5:12-17. Adam sinned & through that we, since he is our earthly dad, spiritual death reigned, came upon us. But, like sin came through 1, grace abundantly comes through a higher 1, JESUS, can i get an amen!!! Sin isn’t created, it’s an outcome from an action, just like goodness isn’t created, comes from being good. Dats all’s I gots, T. Sorry i bee late, teach. Not taking.g shots, just simple thought, hanging with my bro Soloman.

      • Andy,

        I asked if God knows everything that is going to happen in the future perfectly? You said, yes.

        I asked if we, as creatures, can do anything outside of God’s knowledge? You said, no.

        Here is the problem…you don’t believe in free-will. Here is an example for you:

        1) You walk into a deli for lunch. You look at the menu, and choose the turkey sandwich. Could you have chosen anything differently?

        2) In your view, God knows everything that is going to happen. I am assuming even before he created he knew everything. So, the God of the Bible knew that you would walk into a deli and buy a turkey sandwich. He knew the perfectly and his knowledge cannot be false. Could you have chosen anything else? If not, then you don’t have free-will.

        The truth is that you claim your system allows for free-will but it is a bait and switch trap. From my perspective I can explain the reason why God knows the future but our choices are still real, even though they aren’t “free”. You can’t. Your system relies on free-will to bring people in, but it is a sham. There is no place in the Scriptures that talk about free-will.

        Also, I’m not sure what hanging out with Solomon has to do with this.

  2. So, I’m guessing by your silence, no on hearing or seeing an election pastor, hmmmm. Why no answer? & on the believe word, why do we have to? You say HE controls us completely, so we don’t have to do anything, walk, sleep, talk, eat. I tell you if your right, why, from the start to the finish is everyone, including the last & greatest apostle, Paul, disobeying HIM? Seems like we all would be doing exactly what HE says, why we prone to wander, hmmm? Maybe it’s be caused we have been given a soul that is full of desire & HE wants us to obey HIM, not our flesh. Dang, Parent/kid relationship again. Sir, utopia exist in Heaven, not here. If we were completely under HIS control, why wouldn’t there be utopia here? Plenty of times we hear that HE is broken over us (from our worldly ways) & HE hurts for us. Bingo, JESUS is the answer, because HE needed a SAVIOR to bring us back from our choosing to disobey, redeemed!!! Once again, THE QUESTION???? Ps- I chuckled when I wrote, “say hi to all the unlucky 1’s in hell, sorry, just bad luck!”

    • Andy,

      I think it is funny that you accuse me of not answering your questions, yet you haven’t interacted with my questions. When it comes to what you said the answer is that, as a reformed believer in Christ, I believe in compatibilism. It seems that you are not aware of what Calvinists believe, because of the straw-men you have been building up and attacking. Here is an article for you to look at regarding compatibilism: Compatibilism

      Also, if you could interact with my questions, that would be great.

      Travis

      • Not trying to be a butt head, but here’s the order Travis. 1st–i read your article (no questions ) 2nd–I responded with questions for you. 3rd–you thought it was funny that I didn’t answer your questions, but wanted you to answer mine. So, if you thought it funny, it’s stinking hilarious that you responsed the way you did. C’mon T, I asked 1st, so??????? Oh yeah, let’s keep it Biblical, because everyone else is just a man, whick means, not perfect. PS- goofn on u bro!!!!

      • Andy I have answered your questions. I will be more direct here:

        Your question: “So, the church you attend , the preacher would end the service by saying something like this, “well, i hope GOD has chosen you to spend eternal life with HIM,so, good luck & if not, say hi to all those in hell, when you die, that he didn’t chose “.Good luck getting that extra building built! Kinda like the lottery, huh?”

        Me: No, the preacher does not say anything of the sort. Faith comes by hearing the Gospel. We, as Calvinists, believe that and that is why we proclaim the Gospel. I am not sure what the extra building is and it is not like the lottery. That is a straw man.

        You: “So, why the cross, if GOD has elected only some of HIS children beforehand for salvation, why have HIS son pay the ultimate sacrifice, cruxifiction? Why did the 1 prisoner on the tree, just before his death, receive the good news, where’s this hope the bible teaches us?”

        Me: Jesus died on the cross to show us the entirety of God’s character. He shows us mercy by paying for our sins, yet God shows his justice at the same time. Why did Jesus die on the cross? To save his people from their sins! Why did one thief believe and the other didn’t? Jesus says this in John 6:44, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me qdraws him. And rI will raise him up on the last day.

        That is why one thief believed and the other didn’t. God did not force the other thief to not believe, he simply did not grant him the ability to believe in Christ.

        You: “Why would GOD even tell Adam & Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge? Why are the words, beleives, beleived, beleiver, beleive, beleiving, beleivers, in the Word of GOD? (which means to ACCEPT (choose) as true, genuine, real) ”

        Me: The choice to believe in Christ is real. The problem is that no one does good, not even one (Romans 3:12). Is believing in Jesus Christ good? If it is, then we need to be spiritually revived to do so.

        You: “John 17:21–earlier JESUS is praying for the disciples, but now for future Man that, through the disciples, will become beleivers through hearing the Word (not HIS election).”

        Me: Yep, faith comes from hearing the word of God. However, in Acts 16:14 a woman named Lydia had her heart opened to believe in what Paul was teaching her. So, faith comes from hearing the Word of God, but we need to be given the ears to hear.

        You: “I’m guessing everytime we see the words- GOD loves us, we should put a footnote saying, “only the lucky 1′s, sorry”.”

        Me: It rains on the righteous and unrighteous alike. God grants his created beings breathe. That in itself is love. What you are talking about is a love that is sub-human. You are saying that God loves everyone equally, that is, in the same way. However, the Bible does not use this language. God shows favor to people. You would love your wife differently than you would your neighbors wife. Is that wrong? Why can’t God love some people salvifically and others in a different way?

        You: “They chose to do it, He let them.”

        Me: They choose to do it because they were sinners. They were stained by original sin. They loved to sin and God left them in their state of sin.

        You: “Talk to Parents, we let our kids goof, because thats the only way they learn to listen, or follow us, even to trust us that we know better than they do. Look, 12th grd grad here, duh (easily figured out from wordage, lol) & surely no theologian, duh 2, but if GOD choses who gets in, & with the explanation /disciption of hell the Bible gives us, then GOD is evil.”

        Me: You are assuming that God must let people into heaven. You are assuming that people don’t deserve hell to begin with. The problem is that the Bible only gives us one “person” with truly free-will. That is God. God does not need to save everyone, simply saving one person would be enough for him to be labeled graceful. It truly is a shame that many people think that they deserve heaven, and essentially that is what you are arguing for here.

        You: “James says we shouldn’t show partiality, so GOD can? Didn’t HE bring the flood after only finding 1 who had favor with HIM? All the others had continually evil thoughts in their hearts & CHOSE NOT TO FOLLOW him. No partiallity here, just blessings & cursings from Man,s choices (PSALM 1). We see bad choices made throughout the Bible, wait , we all have sin & fall short , that’s it, we are sin, not HIM.”

        Me: No, God does not show partiality the way humans do. He shows mercy and grace, but that grace and mercy aren’t partial. IF God were to show partiality it would be evident in your view. If people are truly free-willed then the person saves themselves. If the only difference between Hitler and I is that I choose to follow Christ and he didn’t, the difference isn’t Jesus’ death on the cross for us, it is that I, somehow was more spiritual that Hitler. That is partiality.

        You: “HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!” YES or NO, if no, then they would be wolves in sheep clothing, right? if yes, GOD help us!!!!!”

        Me: I have no idea what this means. Have a nice day is a phrase used cordially. People say it all the time. To somehow say that because I would say that to someone means I am a wolf in sheep’s clothing is a little offensive.

        I have answered your questions now take a crack at mine, if you will…

        #1 Does God know what is going to happen in the future perfectly? If you say yes, then I have another question for you.

        #2 Can you do something outside of what God knows you’re going to do? In other words, can you, by your free-will falsify God’s foreknowledge? If you said yes to the first, I am going to assume you are going to say no to the second.

        #3 Since God does know the future, and God cannot be wrong about what is going to happen in the future, doesn’t that mean you also believe that God creates people that he knows will go to hell? If God knows everything about the future and can’t be wrong then you have a serious problem. You believe that God created people that go to hell for no purpose. Your position leaves God in a place with no power over his creation. Your belief makes God a “respecter of persons” because whether they are saved or not is solely up to them.

        Andy, I was in the same boat you were in when I was in high school and my early college years. Keep pursuing knowledge and a deeper understanding of God’s word. I only have one suggestion though. Next time you comment on someone’s blog maybe be a tad bit more respectful.

        Thanks for commenting,

        Travis

      • Don’t have time to respond now, but will this weekend, but I am respectful. Called myself a butt head after you said “it’s funny”. Just wanted you to know the order, hmm, maybe you were a tad, nah, I want go there. Have a good weekend. PS-So, its all a crap shoot until we die I guess. I’m hoping HE predestined my kids for Heaven & not hell, yours as well if you have any. Nice dig with the High School , but I’m 51. 37 when sitting in Church & hearing HIS word Mae me realized HIM, not me.

      • Andy, I was not taking a dig at you by my high school comment. This is what you said, “Look, 12th grd grad here, duh (easily figured out from wordage, lol) & surely no theologian, duh 2…” The only way I could understand that was that you were either a recent high school graduate or going to be a high school graduate. Also, when you say it’s a crap shoot, you are wrong. That is not what I, nor any other reformed believer, believes. Our salvation is set. It is not determined by chance like the throwing of dice are. Jesus died for my sins. He didn’t throw dice to see if he did or didn’t. Hopefully, we can get past these straw men and really interact with the issues. I look forward to you interacting with my questions.

        Travis

  3. Hmmm, I don’t think he “invented sin.” He did, however, invent CAUSE AND EFFECT.
    The Universe itself was created by “cause and effect” of atomic particles colliding. (you do understand I am NOT a scientist..so that is a very child-like way to explain it).

    He doesn’t tell or guide anyone to put them hand in a flame. Unfortunately, we begin learning at an early age that sticking your little hand in an open fire burns.

    When we commit a sin, for instance, stealing from another person. We may or may not get caught immediately; however, the act itself imprints a darkened place on the soul. Of course, the best thing, for our benefit, would be to be caught immediately…shamed, pay it back or worse…thus learning the cause and effect of our own actions.

  4. Good morning T! 12th grd grad, was to let you know i’m limited in my schooling & i’m surely not the sharpest tool in the shed. I can go to all the sights that dispute the TULIP, Biblically, & you can show me all your argurements against choice, Biblically, so i like to make simple. So you beleive GOD, before we are born, says yes to some & no to others concerning salvation (thast sounds like a “roll of the dice”). Short & simple please, Y or N. If yes, then people who beleive that, should never, & i mean never have children!!! Talk about rolling the dice! “Well, i hope HE said yes to little Johnny, if not, we just brought a child into a sinful world & he will be destined for A LOT worst, eternal damnation.” I’m sorry, can’t get my head wrapped around that way of thinking.
    We see in the N.T. of peolpe accepting CHRIST after hearing from a brother, their master, a friend, a shunned (woman at the well) town member. So, it one would assume, Dad to child, a good % would accept JESUS. OK, i know what assumes means, so i just looked up (Barna Group survey) & found that 2 out of 3 born again Christians did so before their 18th birthday. 1/2 were led, Eph. 6:4, to CHRIST by parents. Being 51 does bring a little knowledge to this subject. After i accepted CHRIST (37), my daughter (12yrs. old) at a Youth Church camp asked JESUS to be her SAVIOR. I WANTED HER TO DO IT SO BAD, but it took a Pastor to tell me HIM, not me, HIM. My son told his sister at 6yrs. old, that he asked JESUS to be his LORD & SAVIOR. I have worked in the Youth for the last 10yrs, & have seen it all & i can tell you, that survey holds water.
    Compatibilsm? i’m sorry my wisdom, given to me from GOD, doesn’t allow me to grasp that, sorry (remember 12th grd egdejuumakashun here). But my knowledge tells me that if i don’t play ball with Johnny when he’s small, he want play when he’ tall (at least a 50%) Wow, made myself proud with that staement (would be a good title for a book).
    I’m thinking people, just like the catholic faith, try to bring man’s wisdom into GOD’s Word. We both know what the Bible says about that, foolishness. Sorry, as JESUS came as a baby, JOHN 3:16.

    Like Solomon said, wisdom is like chasing the wind—beleiving is ETERALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Have a good day T!

    • Andy,

      Again, God does not simply pick people for heaven and hell. When you say that, you are assuming that man is morally neutral. When your children were born they were not neutral. They were sinners before a holy and just God. They were not good, nor innocent. With that foundation my view comes to light. God doesn’t send people to hell. People send themselves there. God grants grace and forgiveness to some, and leaves others in their sin. From man’s perspective you are correct in saying that we don’t know who will receive god’s grace and who will not. However, that is not a throw of the dice. That is set forth from God who is eternal. Now, I interacted with every question you posed in your first comment, I think it is time for you to answer mine.

      #1 Does God know what is going to happen in the future perfectly? If you say yes, then I have another question for you.

      #2 Can you do something other than what God knows you’re going to do? In other words, can you, by your free-will, falsify God’s foreknowledge? If you said yes to the first, I am going to assume you are going to say no to the second.

      #3 Since God does know the future, and God cannot be wrong about what is going to happen in the future, doesn’t that mean you also believe that God creates people that he knows will go to hell? If God knows everything about the future and can’t be wrong then you have a serious problem. You believe that God created people that go to hell for no purpose. Your position leaves God in a place with no power over his creation. Your belief makes God a “respecter of persons” because whether they are saved or not is solely up to them.

      Travis

      • HE made us sinners–our sin sends us–then your thinking says , HE does send us if we have no say so. Without the desire HE gave us to know HIM, we couldn’t, but its our choice. I hope you realize it 1 day. It’s been fun, late!!!!!!

      • God gives Man “Free Will.” WE CHOOSE to commit an act.
        When a toddler is walking and falls down. He/she figures out what caused the fall… and learns.
        Only the stupid and stubborn KNOW something will end up hurting doing it all over again.

  5. So 88, does that mean we all are stupid/stubborn, even the greatest apostle ever, Paul. He simply stated flesh is the reason he kept sinning, even tho he knew it was wrong.

  6. Andy, LOL…I think you said it. We tend to be stubborn and we can be very stupid sometimes too. To address what you stated above the rest of the statements, I have seen it happen…that the more education people get they become more stupid spiritually. They hang onto the sciences as the cause and effect. They seem to forget the CAUSE of the cause and effect.

    I have met some REALLLLY stupid PhD(s) in my life vs. People with only a High School Education who believed in righteousness, morality and clean living.

    • 88, Dale JR. guy? 2 Peter 3:9 patient, wants all to confess & believe, Romans 10. I’ll hang my hat on those.

      • Andy,

        I find it funny that you insisted that I answer your questions, yet, you have not taken the time to answer mine. I think you should try and work through my questions before you move on. When you are done, I think you should read my post on 2 Peter 3:9. It doesn’t say what you think it says.

  7. T, chill, I’m not trying to change you, bravo for your steadfastness! Oh yeah, I’m not budging either. Jews needed JESUS to be a king on a white horse with a 10′ sword & the Greeks needed to be the smartest & they both missed out. JESUS said come as a child, & I did, believe! We could go back n forth, I haven’t even touched Baptist Theology writings, so THE END. PS-why couldn’t the rich ruler follow JESUS, his, his,his,his,his,his,his, his love of money, manna, treasure, stuff, John 5:21, idols, if we are robots, why worry about them!!! Hugs n kisses, it’s been fun!!! Keep searching for more wisdom,but remember what Solomon said, “striving after the with, all is vanity”,

    • Dang, “wind”, my bad!!!!!!! -5, I’ll take the 95!!!!!!!

    • Andy,

      Earlier in our conversation you said, “So, if you thought it funny, it’s stinking hilarious that you responsed the way you did. C’mon T, I asked 1st, so??????? Oh yeah, let’s keep it Biblical, because everyone else is just a man, whick means, not perfect.”

      Then I answered all of your questions. After I did you responded with this, “Don’t have time to respond now, but will this weekend”

      Where are the answers to my questions? It seems to me that you are only interested in taking cheap shots at me and reformed theology instead of actually interacting with it. I don’t blame you. I used to do the same thing because I didn’t have answers to the hard questions. You say that I believe we are robots, not true. Again, compatibilism is explained for us in the story of Joseph. Joseph’s brothers willingly sinned by selling Joseph into slavery. However, Joseph says that they meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. God willed all of that to happen. Does that make Joseph’s brothers robots? IF you say yes, then your problem is with Scripture, not with me.

      Here are my questions one last time. If you refuse to answer them, then I guess our conversation is done. If you can’t answer them then you should admit it.

      #1 Does God know what is going to happen in the future perfectly? If you say yes, then I have another question for you.

      #2 Can you do something other than what God knows you’re going to do? In other words, can you, by your free-will, falsify God’s foreknowledge? If you said yes to the first, I am going to assume you are going to say no to the second.

      #3 Since God does know the future, and God cannot be wrong about what is going to happen in the future, doesn’t that mean you also believe that God creates people that he knows will go to hell? If God knows everything about the future and can’t be wrong then you have a serious problem. You believe that God created people that go to hell for no purpose. Your position leaves God in a place with no power over his creation. Your belief makes God a “respecter of persons” because whether they are saved or not is solely up to them.

      • Oops, Joseph question, here goes. His bro’s wanted him dead & gone, tired of him being pampered & his cockiness. So, they tried to kill him, but GOD had other plans. GOD didn’t want him dead, HE needed him, so he brought him thru the muck (James 1:2-4). Mans evil was over ruled by GODs good. Just like nasty rap & devil heavy metal music, mans evil in this music came 1st, then GOD brought Christian rap & heavy metal so people who choose to listen to that kind of music could hear the Good News & be saved, amen!

      • When I say perfectly, HIS perfectly is what I’m stating, not ours. Do I think he knows , or cares , what I’m ordering for lunch, no. He knows he created us to eat, what we choose to eat is on us. I went thru John a couple of years ago & 1 thing that stuck out to me was, man thinking earthly & JESUS speaking Heavenly thoughts. I do not think GOD sets whether or not I go to the bathroom 2xs or 8xs, it depends solely on how much I consume. Your compatibilism is the Bibles flesh, & I can guarantee you flesh is in the Word. Flesh makes Paul continue to sin, it made the 3 D’s fall asleep 3xs on JESUS. Gotta go, but free will, choice if that helps you, is everywhere in the Book. Disobeying GOD by listening to a fallen angel because the lust of the eyes, in the Good Book, won over GODs instructions.

      • Oh, so God doesn’t know what you are going to eat for lunch? Did God know that you would be saved by the blood of Jesus on the cross? That is something, I assume, he would care about. If he knew that, then why would he create all these other people that he knew, before time, would never repent of their sins? Did he simply create people for hell then? See how your system can be turned on it’s head using the same objections you use of reformed theology? Just some food for thought.

  8. Andy, no we are not stupid. We all learn step-by-step. You wouldn’t call a child stupid for falling down or sticking their hand in a flame and being burned. The child learns to walk; and learns that fire “burns.”
    What a strange statement.

    The lessons of life begin very simple. As we grow, the lessons become harder. Hopefully, we have loving parents to teach us “cause vs. effect” of acts and attitudes.

    But! Just as some children are more stubborn than others, they have to learn the hard way. He gives us “free will.” Hopefully, we learn what happens when we go into the wrong direction.

    • Your right, I re-read what I wrote, dah. Just trying to convey, we , like Paul still sin even tho we know, as born again believers, it has no dominion over us

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